tully satre - Cross-Post "I'm no faggot; I'm bisexual"

Gah. People like this are the reason my mother asked me if I wasn't just saying I was bisexual to be "cool". Yeah, because coming out to one's parent isn't hard enough.

In my experience, a lot of girls get into the idea of 'bi' because they think it will attract guys. That being said, there are some women that I am somewhat physically attracted to, but I wouldn't ever call myself bi. I wouldn't call myself ambiguous. I'd call myself without a doubt straight. I walk into a room, and I'm checking out the guys, not the girls. Is that just totally hypocritical or what?

I'm bisexual. For real bisexual. And I hate that girls pretend to be bisexual to be trendy. I hate that guys think I'm slutty because I'm bisexual. But I also feel like that is a lot of biphobia in the queer community. I've never had a lesbian girlfriend because many lesbians won't date bi women because we'll "leave them for a man." Many gay friends of mine refuse to acknowledge my sexuality--they think I'm just being trendy or confused. But this is real for me. And it's very hurtful to be stereotyped by anyone--hetero or homo.

I wonder if perhaps most people are in fact naturally bisexual, and they simply "orient" towards a socially established sexual identity as they establish their particular gender identity. As we choose our gender expression, we immediately face how we will choose to identify ourselves sexually, and most often our choices are very dichotomous and authoritave, i.e. gay or straight, girl or boy. Though while those extreme opposites exist, they represent a much smaller portion of human sexuality than the weighted privilege they are given.

Although there is a "trendy" factor in the youth culture, it is also possible they are responding to dissipating heterocentric boundaries, and expressing something natural in their sexual formative process. The awkwardness and untowardliness in which they do it is rather par for the course with early stages of sexual maturation.

So I would actually applaud this phenomenon. It is a sign of social evolution which is still in its early stages. The residual hate built up by socio-sexual conventions is still strong, but indicates the lack of mental advancement measured in pace with the sexual advancments.

I've noticed this in my own high school as well. I'm not sure what to make of it honestly. I hover between indifference and annoyance - while sexuality is definitely a part of who we are as human beings, it shouldn't be an all-encompassing definition of someone's identity. I believe that's what quite a few teenagers have morphed bisexuality and even homosexuality into which, in turn, is more of a trend than a part of whole human being.

On the plus side, such frank talk of different sexualities can be (and is, I think) positive. It encourages people who are actually gay or bisexual to (hopefully) embrace themselves as they are.

I've also heard of what beethatbumbles talks about in her comment. A friend of mine who is gay mentioned that he's a little leary of dating bisexual men which surprised me.

well my view of bisexuality is a little different. I have tentatively placed bisexuality in a class with Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Faery (unless of course your dentist is gay). I know lots of people who claim an orientation in bisexuality but I believe that it is at best a way station on the coming out process. It is a way for younger gays (both in the number of birthdays achieved and in the coming out process)of stepping tentatively out of their personal closets. Unless you are engaged in some sort of group sexual activity with partners of mixed genderl you are only engaged in homosexual conduct or heterosexual conduct at any given time. I don't think there is anything called bisexual sexual activity unless one is actively engaged in a menage.
-Eamon

Isn't it more probable that as the stigma is removed from bisexuality in general, more and more people feel able to come out and say "I'm bi"? I've never in the 25 years I've self identified as bi seen it used as a fashion statement.

Just because that girl wasn't someone you wanted to identify with, it really doesn't follow that she wasn't genuinely bisexual - we have far too much elitism everywhere, please can I not now find it amongst the people who I thought were more accepting than others.

Agreeing with the posters above that most people are somewhere between being only attracted to one sex/gender and the other. I think those girls probably are bisexual. I also think they'll end up in the longrun living a heterosexual existance because thats easier. And one important reason why thats easier is because of the difficulty of being accepted by the gay community if you admit to being attracted to the opposite sex. My first girlfriend was even warned off me because I was known to have had boyfriends. Happily she had the strength to tell them where to go but we were both shunned by the "gay community" (it really was tiny - one pub night once a week was the scene!) in the small town we lived.

Personally I'm more sexually attracted to women, but have had plenty male lovers as it really is not so important to me whats hanging between their legs as to whats between their ears. A cute belly helps too :)

As to me being slutty because I'm bisexual (and polyamorous!) well I did't need to be bisexual to be a slut, its a state of mind that I quite enjoy :) And what is wrong with enjoying consensual sex anyway?

However as someone that easily becomes besotted with women I have found it very painful that straight women will use me as a way to get male attention, and I think it is from that experience that a lot of the biphobia in the lesbian community comes from.

As a woman who has practiced bisexuality for 18 years, I am taken aback by yet another slander to bisexual women. We are real queers. We wear strap-ons. We have sex with men and women. We participate in a great many "queer" activities.

The idea that my sexuality is perpetually dismissed in so many public articles...

Grrr.

I am tired of this. Teen agers, all teen agers everywhere, claim things which are not true out of fear in order to have friends. To slam "bisexual women" because you are annoyed with a teen? Think before you speak.

Ran across this in a couple of communities I'm in, and followed the link here.

This article illustrates human nature perfectly, particularly the Us vs. Them attitude that causes too many problems, including in the GLBITQetc. community.

First off, you have bisexuals who don't see what's wrong with calling a gay man a "fag". That's just plain cluelessness, and probably a result of a lack of making the connection between being bisexual, and queer rights in general. However, there was no evidence in the conversation that was given that the bisexuals in question had called the author a "fag". Maybe these kids just *look* like other kids who have called him a "fag" before. But not everyone who wears A&F and American Eagle is a bigot, just as not everyone who wears Birkenstocks and dreadlocks is open-minded.

This whole article, OTOH, comes off as just another way to marginalize people that the author thinks aren't legitimate. It judges based on appearance ("OMG, fake Versace!!!") and an offhand comment ("It's cool".) So what if it's cool? So what if it's more open? People have been experimenting with sexuality for far longer than preppies have been around.

There's a definite note of specific biphobia here, too. How come nobody mentioned the girls who go through "lesbian phases"? I met plenty in high school, many of whom are married these days--to men. But back then, they wouldn't touch a man with a ten foot pole. I don't think that they were any less lesbian for having married men 5 years later. That's where they were in their life then.

And that leads to the crux of my argument--whose place is it to judge? Who gets to decide who's let into the club and who isn't? And furthermore, I'd just like to add that yes, some people ARE born that way--but some *aren't*. I am 27 years old. At various times in my life I have identified as lesbian, straight, bisexual, and these days, pansexual. Who are you, or anyone else, to tell me, that just because I've settled on pansexuality for now, that I wasn't a "real" straight girl 12 years ago? How I felt at that time was how I felt, and for some of us, sexuality *is* a fluid thing.

Maybe some of these bisexual kids will change over time--maybe some won't. But this is where they are right now, and I think that rather than judging them by their appearances (I wonder if the author would have been soharsh if they'd been wearing bellbottoms and patchouli, or goth garb, or punk gear), it's best to let them grow as they will, and mature in whatever direction that ends up being. If you want to offer them information on the local queer campus group to discuss rights and such, great. But dismissing people just because of first impressions means that you could lose potential allies later on down the line--because of biphobia, it took me years before I'd interact with the gay community in my area simply because I didn't want to be told I wasn't "legitimate" enough because my primary partner happened to be male. Fortunately I figured out eventually that it doesn't matter who you love--you can still help. But attitudes like the one in the article just reinforce negative divisions that set us all back.

Just my two cents.

I second (third, fourth) all the people who have said that this article is biphobic and harmful.

It should be noted that the biphobic nature of this article is probably why it got published in the Advocate, which seems to be a haven for short biphobic pieces.

If you (the author) want people to start respecting your sexual identity (by, say, not calling you a faggot) maybe you should start by respecting their sexual self-identification. Just because someone is different than you in their love of Versace bags does not make their sexual identity somehow less real.

And really, the idea that bisexuals are somehow still homophobic is a myth. Sure, I expect there is plenty of internalized homophobia, but I have yet to meet a bisexual who does not come down on the right side of any queer issue: same-sex marriage, anti-discrimination law, harassment, queers in the military, etc. We bisexuals get to experience some of the same homophobic shit that you experience - just sometimes in lesser quantities. But it's still the same shit, and we recognize it as such.

-- Pepper, one of those "trendy" bisexual men

Biphobia from the gay community exists, but I'm not comfortable equating it with homophobia from straight people. A lot of women don't believe I'm really a lesbian. It's annoying, but it's not the same as institutionalized discrimination. I'd rather direct my anger at the heterosexist culture in which we live. I understand that it is frustrating to be excluded by other queers for any reason, but I wouldn't call it an attack. The author didn't beat up his classmate because she's bisexual. There aren't any gay folks organizing to ban marriage for bisexuals. I'm guilty myself of engaging in this sort of infighting, but it is a bit ridiculous when you consider that most homophobic straight people lump us all in the same "queer" category anyway.

Tully, I love you, but there's a lot of bi people who read this article who are going to think you're telling them they're not bi, because they're sensitive like that.

Don't listen. You did good.

What would one of those "fake" bisexual girls have to do to prove to you that they're just being themselves? Maybe they should copulate with a person of each sex/gender on a stage in front of a crowd, moaning all the while, to prove their attractions... oh, wait, that would just perpetuate yet another stereotype about bisexuals- that we're sluts.

I'll be boycotting the Advocate from now on, thanks.

I liked your article quite a bit. I don't identify with common labels of sexual orientation. I wasn't pretty, popular, or cool. I liked some girls in secret, feeling guilty the ENTIRE time. I had myself convinced that I was just focused on how much better looking they were than I was ... which was true, in a way (haha).

My fiance flat out IDs as bi. (Yes, I realize how cliche' it sounds on paper, but really, how many women are going to accept a "gay in training", as I've oh-so-eloquently heard my FH called in front of me.) Most of our friends are LGBTQ-identified.

His younger sister is pretty much one of those annoying Hot Topic girls - and, when he came out, she ripped him a new one, and called him a variety of words I'm not comfortable using here. Six months later, she's "bi" and wants advice on coming out, because she likes women now. She's obsessed, gag me, with the Suicide Girls. She runs around telling everyone about her orientation. This is the same girl, that, while my other half was in high school, used to be "so close" with him in high school and then say things like "R*** is so gay. I'm really glad I'm not as fat or gay as he is".

Anyway, in short, I know where you're coming from. I love "The Advocate", and props to you for getting fabulous writing experience while in high school.

I would identify myself as a bisexual woman, by which I mean that I am happy to be in a relationship with a man or a woman. I have experienced more prejudice among the gay community than anywhere else and articles like this do nothing to help that situation. I know so many lesbians who flat out refuse to be in a relationship with anyone who identifys as bisexual and believes them to be untrustworthy. I believe that this is even worse for men, in fact I don't know a single gay man who would be willing to date a man who is bisexual. I accept that it does seem to be fashionable for teen girls to say that they are bi at the moment but this does not mean that they are not bi or even just curious, it is easy enough to identify the ones that are not really bi as they are usually the ones who will go to parties, kiss a lot of girls but never take it further or be willing to have a relationship with another girl, however if by being fashionable to be bi at the moment makes it easier for genuinely bi people to come out at an earlier age and for people to be comfortable with this then why can't we leave them to it. When I was still at school and seriously struggling with my sexulaity I would have apreciated this a lot.

People like this are WHY...

1. Those of us who really ARE Bi have it so hard being taken seriously by our family/friends when we come out.

2. Those of us who really ARE Bi have it so hard being taken seriously by the gay and lesbian community.

3. Those of us who really ARE Bi face discrimination and sometimes flat out hate from members of the gay and lesbian community.

These people... who label themselves as bi to be trendy.. to get more attention from guys or because they kissed a chick ONCE or whatever the hell their freaking motive was.. PISS ME OFF TO NO FUCKING END!

And the 'bi-curious' ones.. they're no better..

It was a long and hard road for me to acknowledge that I was, in fact, bisexual.. much LESS come out to my mother and to my friends (my mother STILL does not take me seriously).. and it was confusing as FUCK for me growing up..!

and NO, I am NOT split 50/50... more like 70/30, with that 70 going to women..

I'm bi, and when I told my first boyfriend, he said "Great. Now I have to be jealous of women too." I was floored.

I confided in a female friend that I was bi, she thought I made a pass at her, and stopped talking to me completely.

Where I live, bisexuals are not "trendy". One friend thought bisexuals were "promiscuous" until I explained it to her.

I could just let people think I'm straight. I have a boyfriend of 15 years. No one would have to know, and my life would be a lot easier. But that would be lying.

A few weeks ago Keith Olbermann opened one of his classic rants with a shot at the Secretary of Defense delivered with the following statement:

The man who sees absolutes where all others see nuances and shades of gray is either a prophet or a quack. Donald H. Rumsfeld is not a prophet.

Regardless of how you feel about Rummy, I think Olbermann's statement does much to inform the debate here.

I first realized I was bisexual in sophmore year of high school, when it was trendy to experiment with your sexuality (kiss girls, declare crushes on other women, and declare yourself bi.) For most of my friends, they went around making noise about being bisexual for a month or so but eventually forgot about it and went back to being boy-crazy. I wrote it off as trendiness in myself too ("I just like to look at girls' cleavage 'cause my friends are doing it!"), and didn't realize that I was seriously bisexual until my freshman year of college. I guess what I'm saying is that the teenage-bisexual-trend doesn't always trivialize "real" bisexuality. Some of those chirpy little trendy teens may actually be queer.

if you need validation for my sexual orientation, know that I dated a lesbian for a year.

When I read that article I got it, but I can't help but feel that your sentiments, while entirely valid, are aimed towards lashing out instead of understanding. I used to be bitter about this kind of thing too but then I realized that there was a chance I was approaching the notion from a negative direction and I didn't have to be. Sure, bisexuals have received a bad rep for being promiscuous and are treated with suspicion by both the gay and straight population. I guess that a slightly exaggerated comparison would be to compare it to the "partially-privileged" status of the "coloured" (their preferred term, not mine) population in South Africa sitting between the upper-class "whites" and the segregated "blacks" during apartheid.

However, when reading that article, while it was witty, and cutting, and provided a very clear mental image, and sure, maybe I wanted to slap that girl right along with you (even if just verbally), I had to stop and think. Think about how the sexual revolution is still ongoing. Think about how in high school, while I didn't go to raves or party like my friends did, I sure seem to hear about how everyone was "bisexual", or were straight but sometimes were in orgies with/messed around with people of the same gender "for fun" or "on the side" or because E made them cuddly, whatever. And while I'm in no way advocating that everyone go out and do some drugs (let's face it, the happy STD-unaware hey-day of the sixties is long past us), perhaps it did help to open my mind a little and make me a bit more accepting of my /own/ bisexual tendencies.

In my view, the more seemingly vapid, pretty girls that are willing to call themselves "bisexual", even if it's to be "cool", the better. And whether they grow up to become stellar sorority girl-dropouts bagging groceries at Wall Mart or whether they end up spawning five ungodly children to a fat conservative senator or maybe they decide that they really /are/ bi or gay and end up with another chick after all, I hope that they're able to look back at their youth and react with commiseration and support when their relatives, children, and friends come out to them. And maybe /those/ people will have religious or social-cultural compunctions holding them back and need help with it.

Are you jealous of that girl for being able to say that she was bi so casually, as if she didn't have a care in the world? Because she made things look so easy? Because she was female and pretty and could get a guy with a snap of her fingers, could turn around and take it back any moment? I used to feel that way, too, but at the root of my jealousy I've discovered that there are feelings of competition. And how do you know that outside of that cheerful conversation with her friend, she isn't having an internal battle? I am often very glib with my friends and coworkers about my sexuality but I still haven't come out to my parents. My mother was raised Catholic and my father is just as conservative as they come. Or maybe this random girl's parents know and don't care, or are encouraging. I remember overhearing an extremely attractive acquaintance having a conversation with her seatmate once on the bus on the way home from school on the subject of her parents /encouraging/ her to be bisexual, and leaving both gay and straight porn around the house. She stated it was embarrassing but by her tone I felt she was bragging, and I was jealous of that person, then. I had the very disturbing thought that someone as attractive as her didn't need to /resort/ to being gay, which is very telling about my own issues. Is someone who is LGBT /more/ LGBT just because they happen to have more religious/familial stress surrounding coming to terms with their sexuality as someone else?

If people want being LGBT to be 'cool', if it's a 'fad', that's a lot better than it being reviled and despised. Maybe Kinsey (as questionable as some of his studies were) was right and a lot of people are at least partially attracted to the same gender, they just happen to be /mostly/ straight. And speaking as a bisexual woman, the more people who want to join our ranks--they aren't prisoners and can leave any time they want--the better.

I have little issue with the content in this article, as I do the length. Little is mentioned about the reality of bisexuality until the last two paragraphs, and then it is in the context of the trendy bisexuals, with the exception of one statement. I understand there are probably length limits, but more clarification on the author's view on bisexuality would have helped with a lot of the misunderstandings.

To be honest, it is probably " What? Is my hearing that bad? Bisexual?" that has caused the most misunderstanding. Because it is set off on it's own and because it was probably the only anti-bisexual line in the entire piece, it somehow defines the whole piece.

Critique of the article aside, I do have things to say.

To the people who don't believe in the teenagers who use bisexuality as a trend: Coming from experience, there are plenty in my age group who are pretending to attract males or for acceptance. I saw it my high school, (which probably was a parallel universe from the normal high school experience,) where 90% of the student population was not stated heterosexual. (It was an arts high school.) My senior year, I approached a similar group of girls having the same sort of conversation, and when I asked one of them to point out a girl she was attracted to, she looked at me and said "I don't like girls."

It happens. There are plenty of guys who think it's the hottest thing ever, and some who think, "Oh, bi girl, I'm going to get to see some girl-on-girl action," or "bi girl, she's easy." To a young girl discovering her sexuality, (both gender related sexuality and individual sexuality, and i differentiate because one's choice of gender is far from the only thing to define one's sexuality, something oft forgotten in many of these debates,) it can be an attractive way to attract a guy. Some of these girls never intend on proving their sexuality or having it questioned.

I do criticize the author on his detailed description of the type of girl he relates in this piece. I understand the comparison of showing that they carry fake versions of things that are otherwise popular, they are doing the same with their sexuality. But that is not how the piece comes off. It comes off as the author holding his own prejudices against those sorts of people. Maybe those two girls really are bisexual? Maybe they aren't? More importantly, who cares? They are just a jumping off point for a bigger discussion.

Back to the original discussion. Even if I can see the allure of bisexuality for acceptance, that's not to say that it doesn't hurt real bisexuals (like myself.) I have a male friend, who thinks that even though I am in a committed relationship with a guy, that I want to see his fiance naked. When I told him no, he responded with a puzzled look and "I thought you were bisexual."

And that said, that doesn't mean that all young girls who proclaim themselves bisexual are part of this trend. Many really are. Some even start out pretending and realize later that they aren't pretending, that they really are bisexual. To be honest, when I first came out at sixteen, that is what I thought I was doing, but as time went on, I came to understand my sexuality better and where women's place in it was. Now I proudly proclaim my bisexuality to any that ask, or if the subject comes up. And if no one asks or it doesn't come up? I proclaim it in private. It's one of those things that, although it defines me, the rest of the world doesn't need to know it defines me.

This is a subject in which a lengthier article could go into a lot of depth about trends in sexuality, about the depth of the human sexuality, and about the author's opinions on those things. And it starts to do that, but for whatever reasons, whether they be space, or choice, this article only starts. But, I, for one, would like to see it finish.

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